Leading with Purpose

00:00:04 Speaker 1: Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm one of your co host, Darren Waller. I'm joined as always, I'm a man, my running mate, my road dog, Donnie starkins. Donnie, how are you doing today? Bro? Oh man, that's good. That's like automatic smile comes on to my face when I see your face, No doubt, man, it's likewise. And I think this is the very first episode. We're joined by my cat Spiro. So if you guys hear him winding in the back me Allen, just just know he means no harm. But we're excited to be here today, diving into a topic that Donny and I are both really passionate about, something that's really unfolding in my life currently. We want to talk about the topic of leadership, and I feel like it's something that is constantly being unpacked, constantly being talked about, and a lot of people it may sound intimidating, it may sound like it's outside of their reach, like they may have to be a CEO or a president or something grand in order to be a leader. But we kind of want to debunk that today and give people inspiration and just tips to help them lead wherever they're at. Because we're all leaders no matter what we're called to, no matter if it's two people, no matter if it's two million people. We all have that space, that leverage, that platform to be leaders and it's all about how we approach it. And you know, the greatest the quote I saw that keeps leadership simple is leadership is influence, which you may have heard from John Maxwell. And it's all about how you use that influence, whether it's for negative, whether it's for positive. But we all have a choice in our leadership. And you know, I'm just excited to unpack this with you guys today. Donnie, what do you What are your opening thoughts when you think of leadership? What comes to mind first? For you? Well, what comes to mind? There's a couple of things. First, it's John Maxwell because I think he speaks and writes on on that top better than anybody. I think his last book was Leader Shift, which I love that name because my coaching program is called The Shift. But yeah, I think it is influence and we can influence positively or negatively, and you're leading either way. But I think the essence. I know we talk about this a lot. Is its service, right, it's serving others rather than being self serving or actually wanting to be served by others. I always like to say, if services below you, leadership is beyond you, and man, like, what a gift. It always comes back to our addiction in our past and the selfishness and self centeredness that gave us this antidote to life. It's the greatest life act and that's it's being of service. And it's just such a great way to lead by example. I think the world is changed by your example, not by your opinion. And in a world of social media and a lot of noise and some you know, leaders in our country and leaders in our world that might not necessarily be leading by example, that it's important that really services at the root of it. But as you were, as I saw your face and as we're talking about leadership, it just had me thinking about you know how I'm constantly in the work of this and wanting to step up and be a great leader and then sometimes maybe not. And it can show up even in my relationship. Right, So like this weekend, came out to see you, came out to see you play and my girl, my partner, she banged up her ankle really bad in New York City and she couldn't walk, and you kind of have to be able to walk in New York City. So you know, the selfish, self centered part of me was like, you know, stay home, I'm going to go to the game. And I just kind of had to I step up and be a leader and make sure she felt taken care of and sacrifice my own desires. And you know, I think about initially the level of disappointment that I felt, but also I started to embody a little bit right, and it's like it's not her fault, you know what I mean. And so it was just interesting as you brought it up, and I'm like, wow, there was a gap there where maybe I wasn't a good leader in the relationship. Now luckily I don't think it lasted very long, but long enough to have some contrast there. So you know, I think it's just a reminder that one leadership can look and it shows up in all areas of our life. And for me, it's just like constantly evolving from it. Absolutely. Man. And there's a quote I love. It's you're not responsible for your thoughts, but you are responsible for your actions. So I feel like in that situation, just because you had a thought of what you may have wanted to do, you know, I wouldn't judge yourself for that, you know, because your actions showed that, Hey, I'm gonna make sure that she's okay. I'm gonna set the tone here because she needs help and she's my partner. She's most important to me, so I'm gonna let that be known. And that's important man. And I feel like in order for you to see that at and in order to not do the people that are listening to disservice, I think we need to start with Leadership is about leading yourself before you get the opportunity to lead other people. And the fact that you're leading yourself whereas it's showing compassion to yourself, Like, hey, if you were in a certain situation and you were hurting, you'd care for yourself. So the fact that you know how to do that, you can extend that to Maho instead of you know, trying to think just about yourself and what you may have wanted in a moment. And I feel like a lot of people want platforms, A lot of people want titles and positions to be able to direct people or tell people what to do. But where where is your level of leadership at for yourself? Like when nobody else is watching, where is your level of discipline? Where's your level of you know, self maintenance, you know, self motivation? Like these things have to be taken into account because are you going to be a CEO but you don't know how to work you don't work ethic, or you you want to be a coach, a head coach, but you don't know how to serve, You don't know how to you know, be a position coach first, you don't know how to do all these things. So I feel like before we dive into all these things and qualities that people can implement, we got to start with saying like, hey, like we need to be leading ourselves because ultimately our desires and our wants that are self centered will show if we're not about, you know, having that character and having that proper influence that we should be policing in ourselves first before we even start to want to have influence over other people. Man. Yeah, it has me thinking about like a quality of leadership is someone that really prioritizes self care and personal development. Right, it's taking care of yourself. So there is an aspect of it where yeah, you do have to put yourself first before you can serve others. But that personal development and the self reflection and our in our recovery program do it doing daily inventories and sitting in our practices. It's so important because what it does is it gives you more emotional intelligence, right, and emotional intelligence is just the ability to control and express your emotions as well as handle interpersonal relationships and conflict and when things don't go your way. And you know, it's just bringing me back to you know, my my scenario that I brought up in New York City, and you know, if I look back on it in my own self reflection, yes there were thoughts, but I think those thoughts turned into like leaky emotions a little bit. So luckily again it didn't last long. But it's just you know, I'm aware of it, and I guess I you know, I just I know the importance of humility and honesty, and especially on this, you know, on our podcast, like you know, we can sit here and spit all the wisdom and knowledge that is it. It's not ours it's stuff that we learn, but I think it's more important to talk about like the mess ups and where we're still lacking this and also just our willingness to like want to do better, you know, learn and grow from it. Absolutely. Man, Yeah, like you said, we are people that are living out these things as as you guys are, Like, there's a new change and a new shift as far as leadership in my life being in New York, being on this new team, I'm one of the older guys in the locker room. And no matter how long I mean, the fact that I've been in the league so long, getting close to a decade. Guys that are young, no matter what I may be doing, no matter how good I maybe playing, how bad I may be playing, they see me being in the league nine years just about and they're like, well, how is he doing that? Like I want to get there just that length of time. And so for me, it's about Okay, how conscious of am I of my routine means, my attitude, the way that I treat people, just being about a collective goal as opposed to an individual goal, and realizing that I've adopted this place of leadership, whether I want to accept it, or not, because usually you know who I am. In my core, I kind of just want to blend in, be quiet, you know, say some jokes, you know, kind of be say things every now and then. But I don't want to be the guy that's responsible for making this thing go. But now like I feel like God has calling me out of that. He's not calling me to just be this super raw, raw leader, but somebody that can be more vocal, somebody that can share experience, because me being in the NFL at least in that in this aspect of leadership of my life, I've been I've been drafted, been drafted late, I've been cut, I've signed big contracts, I've been traded, I've been a pro bowler. I've also been hurt on injured reserve. So there's not an experience that I haven't ad So, you know, I honestly feel like shame on me for not wanting the lead, Shame on me for not one of the ship that's experience with other people, because it's not necessarily about my comfortability with it. It's more so about how other people can learn. And that goes back to that servant hood that you were talking about earlier. Like being a leader is a servant. It's not about what I can take from people. It's about what I can add. It's about what I can give. It's about you know, other people being better versions of themselves, growing just because they were around me and us working to a collective goal, right like you think of this. I remember this image I saw a long time ago before I even wanted to even dive into leadership. It's two different pictures of what people think leadership is and what leadership actually is. And some people think leadership is you know people kind of like carrying a throne like kind of like some slaves back in the day, like like way way back like BC, like Roman error, like carrying a throne of like an emperor on it and the emperor's pointing like work, we're going this way, and but the leaders kind of just like relaxing and boston people around. Whereas the real image of leadership is that leader's out in front doing exactly what others are doing, getting their hands dirty, getting their feet, you know, tin toes on the ground, like really out there on the front lines and moving it. Not just calling out orders, calling out shots, so just trying to you know, create this image of you know, what leadership really is from a basic level, and just continue to add to that from a football standpoint, what would you say like your leadership style is today. I feel like it's hard for me to put it into like one style because I feel like it's shifting and evolving all the time, because you know, naturally, I want my leadership style to be kind of like leading from the back, kind of like like the wolf situation. I don't know if anybody's familiar with that, but leading from the back essentially there's like a there's a wolf in the front that's kind of leading the pack everywhere they're going, but then there's a strong wolf that's also in the back that's like keeping anybody from getting to the weaker wolves or the wolves that are struggling, or the or the children, like keeping everybody, you know, make sure they're moving in the right direction. I feel like that's natural to me. Of encouraging guys that may have dropped the pass or made a bad player, made a mistake, that want to just beat themselves up or dive into self pity. I feel like that's natural for me because I see myself kind of slipping into those areas as well, but now it's you know, situations where I can be more vocal, Like you know, just just recently, we had a game, first game of the season, we got mopped, like it was tough, and you know, I've seen situations on the sideline and one of the guys I've always looked up to, with my teammate, Tyrod Taylor, he was like he's like, hey, man, like, you know, lead these guys like be going to be more vocal, Like you know, they're gonna they're gonna listen to you. And it's like okay, Like in that moment, I'm just kind of like all right, like this is this is new territory for me, but it's it's constantly expanding, so it's hard to put myself into one style. But naturally me myself, I'm a guy that's like lead from the back, maybe not necessarily in the front leading Rara like everybody sees like how ray Lewis was like, that's leadership for sure, But you don't have to be a leader to be that way. And I hope people can see that because some people aren't necessarily comfortable with getting out there and just and giving a passion filled speech and just going all out, like maybe we work ourselves into that, but we can find a leadership role in the style for ourselves exactly where we're at. Does it feel awkward to you to like be more vocal and when tired like approaches you? Do you do you feel the resistance initially or are you like taking charge after you you get a comment like that from him. Yeah, I feel the resistance initially because it's not something that I've that I've always done and I've always kind of picked my spots and know like all right, when I say something, I'm gonna have something to say. But in that situation, it's like, okay, like these guys, these guys trust me to to say things that aren't going to be out of line, or that aren't going to be attacking people, or that aren't going to be scrutinized because I am somebody that's careful with my words. I'm careful with my actions. I'm careful with the way that I you know, present myself in work and prepare. So it's it's a matter of just kind of like throwing myself out there, kind of like taking that leap of faith into it, and uh, it's gonna take some time. You know, it's still gonna be a little bit of that resistance, maybe even for a while, but it's about pushing through it, you know, Like I've always heard this past sort like his name is Tim Ross. He said, if you can't it's basically like, if you can't do it brave, do it afraid. And that's something that I'm embodying in a way to this new these new chapters of my leadership, because you know, as you go to new heights, you're gonna be uncomfortable. You just reset and uh and keep climbing. So I'm blessed to be in this position, even though I do feel some of that resistance. Yeah, I think it comes back to We've talked a lot about just unfamiliar, right, which is like that's the part of the brain that doesn't like unfamiliar. It likes familiar comfort zone. Stay in the stay in the unhealthy relationships, stay in the dead end job, do what's familiar. And so immediately we have to do something unfamiliar, and that part of the brain is trying to protect us. But you know, it's just trying to keep us doing the same old thing because because it's familiar, and I think leaning in and you know, finding our edge and being able to relax at our edge or step out of our comfort zone. I think this is the evolution. And you know, if I look at you as a leader, yeah, the on the field stuff is great, but I'm my guess is that a lot of your teammates are the majority of your teammates are are leaning on you for leadership because of everything else beyond the field. Yeah, you've got tenure and a lot a lot more years than everybody else, But I think it's it's those other qualities. And me personally, if I think about the style of leadership that I resonate with the most, it's it's like it's you. It's the quiet, calm confidence. It's not the raw, raw, you know, yell and kind of like you know, just that that stuff brings me back to like Pop Warner days and like you know, high high school football, and it's just I don't resonate with that more. Right, So, I think just your leadership style is something that I would really be more influenced by as opposed to the raw, raw yelling stuff. No, totally get that, man. And I feel like, you know, a major component of leadership as well is just like what's your what's your motive? Right? Like are you leading for the simply for the influence or are you leading for to have relationships with people? Because I feel like at the end of the day, that's what a leaders should be about. And I feel like that's how I try to go about my leadership. It's like, you know, just like not trying to get too fast from you know, TA to task or get too quick to the stats or like you know, where's mine but more so like all right, I'm I'm talking to my tea. If a teammate walks buy me, I'm like, yo, how are you doing? Man? Like how how's your head? How? How how's your day going? Like if if if I see a guy and he might be dealing with an injury, and like how's your how's your timetable coming? Like you know, what are you like asking somebody about their journey, ask somebody about their family, and kind of like build and starting from there because I feel like when I do that, it'll give me more of a know how to to lead these people when it's time, like if it's really in a crunch situation or you know, we're really you know, we're people's confidence is reeling or you know, you're in a jam. It's like, oh, I know how to use my influence for the better to help us collectively because I actually know this person. I actually have taken the time to build a relationship with them, have conversations with them, get to know their life, what they may be struggling with, what they may be trying to get over the hump on. So that's something I try to take into account and you know, kind of like affirm myself for like, yeah, this is I'm carving my own lane with leadership, like this is a this is a certain style. But at the same time, you know, this has my own flavor on it. Nobody can do it like me. I can do it in a way that's inspirational and maybe challenge people at sometimes, but it's also loving. Like at the end of the day, those guys in the locker room know, like, I just enjoy being around y'all, and I know where you want to go. I want to go in the same direction. Let's do it together and let's take all the ego out of it. You know, Oh man, I think you nailed it right there with It's also important to kind of define have our own definition of leadership because I think we all have natural gifts and talents and some are going to be more vocal, some are going to be more high energy, some are gonna be more grounding and have that calm confidence. But it does come down to, like, if we want to step up our leadership game, we do have to step up our relationships. Emotionally intelligent and people and leaders understand that their success and failure always rests on the quality of their relationships. Right. It's kind of like that trust and having that and it goes beyond the surface level, right, And this is the essence of why why we do this podcast and why we talk about everything and share our stuff, right and bring on guests who might maybe the world looks at as like having all their ship together and then you know, we get to break it down and they don't. And it's that it's that that common bond, right to talk about the struggles, And yeah, I think it all does come down to relationships, no doubt in in our comeback stories listeners and friends, brothers and sisters, like the people that have been through struggle like you and I, Donnie. It may we may be trained to think like we may not have as much to offer, or we may have disqualified ourselves from a position of leadership, but really, at the end of the day, we're the ones that are more or equipped for that role because we can empathize with people. We've we've fallen, and we can we can see, you know, maybe that little bit of brokenness or that pain and in somebody else. So when we achieve or assume a leadership position, we're not gonna judge them, We're not gonna punish them, We're not gonna, you know, look a look down on them any type of way. We see them as our fellows, as our brothers, as even we're not ahead of them, we're not above them. They're right there with us. And quite frankly, we have more experience to share. Like when when crisis hits, do you want a leader that hasn't been through anything, who everything's been you know, green pastures and has never faced a challenge. It's gonna be tough because he's gonna have to learn in that moment what a lot of us have learned on our lives journey and continue to learn. It's like there's no escaping that there's no escaping failure. There's no And I thought there's people in leadership in the world today that feel like, if you've failure is fatal in a way, you know what I'm saying, When really it's like failure is necessary, and we need that narrative being pushed more amongst people because then people can be like, oh, yeah, I have you know, gotten knocked in the dirt a little bit, but oh that I could still make something happen. I could still lead these young men on this team that I'm coaching. I could still you know, be a mentor to these kids in these in these rough areas that don't have an example to look to. I could still you know, leading my book club amongst you know, wives in the neighborhood. It's like, wherever you are, like the pain that you've experienced, the hurdles that you faced in life, like those are just equipping you to be a better leader. And people need to know that, Yeah, we all have way more influence than we'll ever imagine. And people are watching, your kids are watching, there's people watching you, and you get to choose how you're going to show up. And I just keep coming back to this gift of the gift of desperation in our addiction that gave us this gift of sobriety, that gave us tools. I'm coming back to, like the early on in sobriety, it was the how acronym honestly, open minded, and willing, and all we had to really do is walk into these meetings and just be honest, open minded, and willing. And I remember early on in twelve step meetings that I would like because I really cared what other people think, like I still do, but it's way better than it used to be. And I would go into these meetings and just like you know, not be listening and just be waiting to like in my head about what I was going to say because I wanted to impress or like drop a nugget of wisdom. And then I would go in and watch a newcomer come in just raw, real, honest, crying, showing emotion, and that person had so much more influence on me than, you know, someone that was just dropping stuff out of the book or you know. But then I would forget that and then still fall back into that loop of like and it's like, no, this is leadership, Like this kind of vulnerability and honesty is everything that I need because vulnerability back then was like an issue for me. So I think, like, you know, it comes down to like these tools that we've been given, and how like you can just you can be a living example of leadership by living that how acronym of just getting honest, getting honest with yourself. That's the self reflection in the personal development part. Being open minded even as a leader if you are at the top of a leadership chain in a company, to still be open minded that it doesn't have to be your way all the time. And then willing right, willing to do the work, willing to get your hands dirty with you know, the people that are way below you on the ORG chart. Like all of that is so important to me. That is the most influential way to lead your people. That's so good man. Like if if you need a blueprint on where to start as a leader, that's it. Like just imagine the leader that you would want, Like, imagine the leader that you would want if if you were in the imperfect human being which you are like and you were to mess up, and what kind of leader would you want? Would you want a leader that feels you could resonate with you in your failure. Would you want a leader that anytime that you have an idea they would shoot it down. No, you want a leader that's open minded to your ideas and wants to empower you to have great ideas because that leader wants you to be a leader one day. Like that's that's the ultimate goal. Like leading from a place of I want to create more leaders. I want to plant seeds. I don't want it to just be like I'm leading and you guys are my little minions. You know, as I go about trying to do what I want and get what I can get, and know it's about empowering you so that you can continue to go on and be a leader in your world and affect more people and have those leaders affect more people and operate from that place. Because then it's like we're creating the world we want, you know, like Gandhi, we're being the change that we want to see because we're choosing to lead from a place of strong core values and plant the seed. Because you never know what one person could could benefit from, Like like Donnie, like you teaching your yoga class, you don't know somebody could come in there, and you could change their life one day just by the way that you operate, by the way that you are, the way the energy that you provide and that you radiate. So it is getting to that frame of mind with leadership and what you said about getting in touch with the newcomer and feeling what they feel. I watched this movie on a plane recently. It's called Tar. It's about this lady who's like this world famous music composer and you know, she achieved so much power and influence that she almost becomes like drunk off of that power. And she is like, you know, cheating on her wife and like just you know, treating like young musical students who are looking up to her. She's just kind of bashing them and just like you know, doing whatever she wants. And it's almost feels like she's invincible to consequences. And you know, I don't want to ruin the movie for anybody, but at the end, at the very end of the movie, there she talks about there's a part in the movie like towards the beginning she talks about like the source of music, where her source of inspiration was, and just like the root of just like loving to play music, and at the end when her power trip like just exhaust and just completely burns her out, she goes back to that source and becomes that has that beginner's mind again of like this is where I started, like getting back in touch with you know, just the rawness of what she loved at that time, which I feel like it's similar to getting in touch with the newcomer, like me being six years plus in sobriety, like I still need to hear people's stories. I still need to hear then being fresh off the street, in the urgency with which they want to be sober, the urgency with which they want to change their lives. Because that's helping me. And it's like at the end of the day, leaders don't know it all. Leaders still need to be learning and to lead and create an atmosphere in which people know like, hey, you're learning too, I'm learning right alongside you, and we're never finished products. Yeah, I'm even coming back to that how acronym. You know, if you're questioning how you are a leader, if you don't think you're a leader, if you're in a any kind of romantic relationship, coming back to that, that how Achern him to be able to lead in the relationship. You know, you got to be honest, like that's that's going to be really important, but also open minded, open minded to getting help, getting feedback from your partner, which you know as a as a male, like to the ego, it doesn't always feel great, but it's not like our way isn't always the right way. And then that willingness, right, it's willing to again get outside help to do something different. That acronym just runs so deep and it's like how you do anything is how you do everything. So you know you can take that and you can you know, good or bad, whether you're using something for a positive or negative, it's going to seep into every major area of your life. And so you know, again people are watching and you have no idea the influence that you're making. And it just kind of comes back to the podcast where you are referencing, you know, me teaching a yoga class. But I know you're not on social media, but like you know, the messages like you don't, we don't realize we're just me and you were just chopping it up talking. But the beautiful thing about having a positive influence on a platform like this is like the messages that come through, and all we're doing is share in our story and providing space for other people to share their story to align with our mission, which was just to reach as many people as possible to remind them that they're not alone. So you know, it's so nice that we get to lean on this, this gift of recovery that we've gotten and the tools it's given us to be able to lead. And sometimes it's just by sharing our story and all the shady and dumb stuff that we did in our addiction, so that when we're honest about it and we share, like you know, it can bankrupt that story of somebody else thinking they're all messed up because they did this, and then they hear that you know, you and I both overdosed and and we're still here, right. So yeah, I think this is our responsibility to really utilize this platform and lead by example just by just by being honest, being real. Yeah, and being and being real comes with when you're real. It's like you hear people talk about purpose and when and one person I talked about or hear talk about with purposes, you know, find what breaks your heart and you know, as people like us. I mean even people that aren't in recovery, that have been in touch with that level of pain, that and that level of brokenness and are honest about it and are open about it and are willing to change it. In those moments, you find purpose, which I feel like leads to the next component. It's like leading with a with a vision, Like when you know what breaks your heart, you know what you want to fix, like your your your source of inspiration and it is right there, Like you're gonna attack that issue. You're gonna lead, and you're gonna lead until that vision comes into fruition and you're going to continue to lead through it. And I feel like a lot of people, you know, may may not necessarily have a vision or something that they're necessarily that passionate about. It may be off of cardinal desires, maybe off of money, maybe just be off of power and things like that which don't ultimately empower at the end of the day. And you know, you talk about the world today is there's a lot of leaders, and it's honestly been taught to us, It's honestly been you know, presented to us in a way that is attractive to to want to lead to want to get to the top of the mountain, to want to climb and get up there and and show people that what we've done, but it's not really a way that is truly healthy and truly fulfilling. That's why you hear about people that are worth fifty million dollars, you know, putting a gun in their mouth, or like people that achieve so much success being so depressed because there's not something they're necessarily working towards and trying to lead others toward that is really going to make a difference not only in them, but in so many other people. And I feel like that's a that's another area, another realm that we have to to get into as leaders of Like you know, what, what what vision do I have that is going to have a lasting impact long past when I'm done here, or that lasts longer than I'm in the spotlight, or that you know, like there's something that my my my children can continue to walk in or grandchildren or whatever it may be. But something that's that's bigger than you. Because I feel like leadership in a lot of ways, it's like there's no way it could be bigger than you, because ultimately you want to lead for yourself and how it makes you feel. And that's just something that I hope this world can continue to just unpack and continue to talk about, continue to just face up and look in the mirror and be like, damn, I really do think like that, Like I do want this for myself. I do want the influence for myself and the power for myself as opposed to it. When you get it, is it going to flow through you? So yeah, I think it's important too, because purpose in leadership, I mean in my world and my mind go hand in hand, and even just figuring out like well how can I go lead? Well, it comes back to purpose, which purpose is figuring out what your natural gifts and talents are. Our purpose isn't static, right, It's not something we declare a purpose statement and we live by about the rest of our lives. Our purpose is dynamic. But what's consistent and static are our natural gifts and talents. And so if you're looking to lead, or you're looking to find more purpose or live life with more purpose on purpose, figure out what your natural gifts and talents are and then use those to be of service, Like how can I use my gifts to help others and lead others. Like that's really what it comes down to, because otherwise you're kind of maybe leading it from a place of in authenticity, like you're just playing the role. You know, when you know, someone gets to the top of the ladder and they get that CEO or that leadership title and they have no like relationship skills or you know, emotional intelligence, it's like the example you gave in the movie, it's it will create a very toxic environment and disrupt a culture, whether it's a you know, if it's an organization, a sports organization or a family. Like it all starts at the top, and you know, they say, shit seeps downhill. So you can turn into a positive. But again it comes back to like people are watching. They're watching you, and it's it doesn't cut. It's not about oh caring what other people think. It's like that level of accountability, like you are being a role model for somebody. They're watching you out there, and so you get to choose how to show up. And yeah, I think I think it's important to take a second to to honor and just empathize with these leaders who who may not be leading in the way that we would want them to or in the purest fashion, because leadership isn't easy, especially when you have influence over a lot of people. You're gonna be tempted by a lot of things. You're gonna be tempted to go in certain directions, tempted by things, tempted by metrics, tempted by you know, funds, like whatever. It may be, tempted away from your values, tempted away from what you're true to. And we need to honor them, We need to pray for them, we need to send loving energy, loving kindness to them. And you know, I would say something that may not necessarily be that sexy, like serve your leaders, even if even if that leader above you, it may not be the leader that you would want or that you would envision being the best one, Like serve them like because ultimately, one day, when you're a leader and you're in a position, you're not going to be perfect. You may take somebody off, you may ruffle somebody's feathers, but at the end of the day, like, would you want them to serve you still, just because even though you messed up. That's a question we got to ask ourselves because we can't you know, put down leaders now just because they may do certain things, like we need to try to honor them in any way possible, Like even if we don't see eye to eye, even if we don't agree with everything that we're doing, we can still try to see them as human being. That's that's trying to lead that may be imperfect because we're we're no better than them, because we're going to slip ourselves. So what would you say is like the main motivation behind your your leadership today and how you're choosing to lead, Like what's underneath it all for you? I would say the motivation behind me for the way in which I lead is for people to have no shame, to show up as you know, who they authentically are. You know. I was a guest on a podcast recently and they said they interviewed one of my current teammates before and they asked him about me, and they said, yeah, he's he's daring no matter what we at a room he walks into. And I was like, that's crazy because I spent most of my life like wearing different masks, trying to be somebody different every room I went into. And it's still tempting sometimes to do that and to not because of that feeling of getting exposed or something. But when I heard that, I was like, wow, like because I've never felt that way until up until recently, about being you know, in my own skin and h and showing up and like being in a performance driven industry but not having my whole piece be wrapped up in how I perform. Like I can show up and be like a joke and you know, be excited and be enthusiastic. You know, even in moments where people want to be super wound up and super tight and super serious. It doesn't mean that I don't care. It doesn't mean that I don't hold myself to a high standard. And wants you to do the same as well. But it's like that fear of of Darren Waller being a failure because football may not have ended the way that I wanted to is like, that's that's not a thing anymore, and I want people to do that as well, because when you show up in the locker room like that, when you show up to work like that, free of that of that fear or that shame of oh if I don't win at this or if I do happen to fail, fall in my face, even in the public fashion, like that that it's over for me. That's not the truth, because my reality is every There are plenty of situations where it should have been over for me and it wasn't. And here I am still writing my story. Here I am still you know, continuing on a spiritual journey, trying to find peace, just trying to you know, just cultivate more and more joy in my life organically. And I want to see the people around me do that, especially to men like women as well for certain but as men, you know, we carry so much on our shoulders and feel like we got to do so many things and and and be so much that we're not free as men, like we're always tied to something, some habit, some addictions, something that is we're just trying to take the edge off because we feel like life is so hard and we always have to be performing in a certain way when it's like that's how I want to lead. Ultimately, it's like to show men there's a way to you know, have peace throughout every situation that may come your way. It doesn't have to steal the stillness and the calm that that you're trying to cultivate. Yeah, just being able to be a witness of your journey and the consider decency of the work that you've put in. Forget about all the on the field stuff. I'm talking about the daily journaling, the morning routines, the meditations, showing up at meetings, like being of service, Like the consistency I believe that you've been in the practice of has allowed you to consistently show up as Darren and not somebody else. It's like, the most self confident people are the ones that keep the promises they make to themselves. They do the things they say they're going to do, And you know, if you're not doing those things, it's really hard to be comfortable in your own skin and really just be authentic. But if I think about the qualities of like a good leader of today and the people that I look up to the most, it's authenticity. It's just like people that are real, right. But I don't think you can get to that place if you don't have going back to the qualities of a leader of personal development and self reflection and the practices, yes, leadership and our purpose it has to be something bigger than us, But we still have to put us first in terms of like our sacred practices, our rituals, and the things that are going to like allow us to lead from a grounded place. I want people to know about about you as well, and your journey and your walk, Like how are you still finding that desire and that motivation and that commitment to lead in coaching and teaching yoga? Like how do you stay grounded in you know, these leadership principles we've been discussing. Man, I think it all comes down to I think it's a Gary v quote that says, my selfishness is my selflessness, because it goes down to the root of my addiction, which was selfishness and self centeredness, and how it was just like all about me and you know, the people that I dragged through the glass with me and that addiction in the pain I put my family through, and you know, just like really living a terrible, self destructive, self centered lifestyle. And it's just I never want to go to that place again. And so I know the way that I'm I get out of that is just to serve to help others. But I also know I can't show up in a real authentic way or as the best version of myself if I don't have my practices. I also know as a coach and as a leader that you can only take your people as far as you're willing to go. Again, this is why we do the podcast and why we share our stories, and why we just try to keep it real, because I think people will sniff that shit out in a heartbeat if you're just like all bark and you're actually not in the practices of these things. And I mean that was me for a while, you know, even early on in sobriety, but like you know, I just trying to figure my shit out. But like today, it always just comes back to that, because man, it was like the contrast of you know, being an athlete and then turning into this just disaster of a human. To be honest with you, just the way I was living my lifestyle and the people I was attracting into my life. You know, this is another important part of why having good leadership skills and embodying leadership is so important, because your vibe attracts your tribe, so you end up attracting more of those people in your life, just like in my addiction, like the people I was attracting into my life not so good, right, They were as lost as I was, and so yeah, I think it's that and also for me, it's it's getting close to people that have something that I want. Proximity is power, and so just through like osmosis, I've had a gift of like if I see somebody that has something that I want, and I'm not talking about houses and material things, I'm talking about a calm, confidence and inner peace, a stage presence, a consistency, Like I just want to get close to those people and grab a hold of a little bit of what they have or learn and grow from them. M that's so good man. I thought, like this conversation is bringing new meaning to remember when you were a kid and adults would be like be a leader, not a follower, and you're like, oh whatever, like man, howk off? But it's like you never you didn't know back then, like you know what following an example that isn't true to you or authentic to your story or your journey where it could lead you and ultimately where it led us Because I was following what somebody else described to me what was a form of peace, which was drugs, which was alcohol, which was you know, a lot a lot of different things, but ultimately, at the end of the day, it was me following an idea of what an ideal life would be, like what would make me happy, what would have me to be fulfilled? And it's like as a kid, you're like, yeah, okay, mom, like whatever, Like I'm just trying to have fun with my friends. But eventually there's a there comes a point in your life where you're not even may not even be aware of it. Like I wasn't aware of it. I was too lost in the addiction. I was too lost in you know, the the achievement, that the chase, that the hustle, that I never could stop and ask myself, like what what am I doing right now? Like a I am my leading? Or am I following? Like being honest? The age part of the of the acronym. It's like, I just think back on that phrase, and it's just like, you know, we carry our inner child with us everywhere that we go, you know, like you see me. By time y'all hear this, I'll be thirty one years old. But there's still that the little kid reactions. There's still the little kid fears and insecurities in me from back then. So it's like, now it's a lot easier for me now to take that phrase and be like, okay, like I need to be conscious of this on a daily basis. But how do we get that conversation to where it's like when you're a kid, you're conscious and you start, you know, crafting out your leadership role as at the same age I started using drugs, Like what, like, you know, what does it look like? And I don't know, it's just some random that its popped in my head. But it's like a simple phrase that was so overlooked but now has big time ramifications. Here we are forty five minutes of babbling on how important leadership is and it being one of the most important commodities in the world. Yeah, we can, you know, overlook it in the most important part of our lives. What do you think You've had a lot of coaches. I'm just curious from a football standpoint, what qualities of leadership in coaching? And obviously not the name names or anything with coaching, but like, what do you think is lacking from the coaching staff? What qualities or quality is lacking the most when it comes to leading from a coaching standpoint, I feel like it's changing a lot these days because football has been through errors. Right, there was errors of football. I mean I think I tasted it growing up in the in the nineties when I started playing football, of like no emotions, no crying, like get the get the bleep up and you know, rub some dirt on it, and it's like you suck, like just you know, yelling right in your face, just saliva in your face. And and it was like that was a coach should do it, should just just absolutely crush a player, just rip them a new one. And that's what coaches were. But now it's a new world. It's like people like we're acknowledging like the mental health aspect of things. Like back in the day, there was no mental health conversation, so people couldn't even speak on nor even realize that the way certain coaches, certain people we were talking to them and treating them was affecting their mental health, was affecting their their confidence, was making them anxious and tight to the point where they're taking the field and thinking, I don't want to fail as supposed to. I'm about to go make a play. So nowadays I feel like coaches are realizing that because you can reach a divibe with some players, like players today it's like, na, like you're not You're not going to talk to me like that, Like we're on an evil playing field here. It used to be like the coaches is just talking down on the players and this is what you do and then you go do it when really it's like, ultimately we're working together. So there needs to be a common level of respect. There needs to be a common level of you know, at least trying to see things from your perspective, meeting them halfway and being like, Okay, I can't talk to these players like this anymore. I need to create an environment that's empowering. I need to create an environment that encourages these players to not just be not just giving me the results that I want, but to know like that they're they're they're cared about here, they're valued here, They're experience is valued here as men, and that when they leave here, I want them to be better. And that may take yelling sometimes because they may not be living up to this standard or they may be slacking in a certain way. But a lot of the times it's just real conversation showing them the real side of you. And you know, I feel like I've talked about a couple of times when I want to be when I'm a parent, I feel like I'm going to be real with my kids because a lot of times there's parents out here that forget that they were fifteen years old, forget that they were twenty something years old and made those mistakes or acted a certain way when really it's like, I feel like relationships could be better if you just put yourself on the other person's shoes or just met them where they were and saw common ground in it. And I feel like coaches are starting to do that now. I definitely feel like my head coach does that, the coaches on our staff do that, and coaches that I've been around, great coaches that you know, really are about you know what, this is about my connection with you. First. This isn't about me saving my ass or you know, trying to get my promotion. No, it's about improving you as a player, improving you as a man, and us going on this journey together to where we can all grow, we can all get better and achieve everything that we set out for. And I feel like it's changing. You know, you see a lot of young coaches. You see a lot more younger coaches now, a lot more coaches that just have that energy and can relate to players, but also have that elevated level of knowledge. And that's how you got to be as a coach now, because guys are saying aren't going to rock with you, They're not going to run through a wall for you unless you're really trying to meet them where they are and do it in eleven way. Yeah, and I think this is deserves the shout out to all the athletes out there that have spoken up about mental health, which again another leadership quality, that honesty and that vulnerability, because I think it's taken individuals and athletes like yourself and other ones that have talked around mental health that like, this is what we needed for a shift in leadership, especially in a sport like football. You know, that's for god knows how many years, was all about manning up and so manning up today looks a little different. So again, this all stem from people speaking up and talking about their struggles. Otherwise it would be like the same old thing over and over again. So again it's just like comes back to that, like that vulnerability and that honesty and stepping up and sharing what you're going through. It is so important. It's it's why Darren and I, you know, started this podcast. We say it all the time, but you know, I think we've been we've been talking a while on leadership, and I know we could talk for a lot longer, but I think some nuggets or some questions, especially from a servant leadership mindset or mentality, some things that you can ask yourself. You know, you just want to ask people or ask yourself, like what do people need for me on a daily that maybe they're afraid to ask for? Or what can like going back to the personal development, what can I work on that's going to help me show up and serve better? And how am I going to know that I'm actually serving people? Well? I think that is so important. You can also get honest and say what is it like for people to work for me? What is it like for my children? Like taking an honest look at how you're showing up for them? And yeah, I think it's like what can I do every single day that's gonna allow me to continue to step up my service game? Because that's what it all comes down to. It's like love and service and making sure we're showing up in a real authentic way. That's so well said, bro. And yeah, man, if you there's so many nuggets in here. I hope you guys can dig back in re listen. If you need to send to somebody, Send to the leaders that you know, Send to the leaders that are doing it. Send to the leaders that are new, that may be experienced, that could that could take something away from this, go ahead and send it to them, because we feel like here at comeback stories that ultimately your your comeback story and your respond to adversity through resilience is only preparing you to be the leader that you should be, is preparing you to be the leader that people need, that this world needs, and it's you exactly as you are. And we're praying, hoping, sending you all the good vibes, the good love, the good energy that you would be able to step into that and to step into that with confidence. So on behalf of Donnie and myself. We appreciate you guys. Join us for another episode. I hope you guys like rate comments, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, whether it be iHeart Radio, Apple, Spotify, you name it, You can also find us on the Inflection Network on YouTube. But we're just excited to continue on this journey with you guys as always and because we're all going to keep coming back. We're all coming back on a daily basis, whether it be from something huge, something small, just responding to each and every day showing up. Man. It's it's important because not only do the people around you need it and are looking towards you, but you got to look at that mirror and know and love yourself and affirm yourself that you're right where you're supposed to be on your journey. So we appreciate you guys joining us, and I hope you guys rock with us again next week. Peace We're out. Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 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